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Dean Seidlinger present Valerie Colas present Donna Marie Drucker present Paul Kemp Kathleen Carlson present Vanessa Timmons present Emmy Ritter Matthew Crabtree present Andrew White present andy leonard jerome sloan chris burley james dixon you have a quorum all right thanks folks for jumping on i i know it's been busy and jumping on on a day that we don't usually meet so let's just get to it so donna so you said um you had information on so i sent out the revised file report with integrated edits it still had three comments i was not able to like figure out how to integrate and um so i have it on screen and i can share it when needed why don't you share and then we'll we'll go through it let's do it because i think there's one that i can definitely help with okay so sorry it's as big as it's going to get All right. So the three comments that the first was there was a comment added here that says, quote, opportunity to support hidden homicides, legal initiative. But but there was not policy text behind it at all anywhere in the documents that I could find. So I think I need to know, is there policy text here or should I delete the comment? So here. So I and Vanessa, you might be able to help here. I think the intent here was that fatality reviews would also include hidden homicides to some point. I think there's legislation that's being passed in Oregon. I'm sorry. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think this legislation being passed, which is going to look differently. So and because there's no no recommendation connected to this, I think it's I think that we can strike this. but I'm curious if anybody has any other thoughts Vanessa I see that you're unmuted yeah I unmuted because I was I was feeling similar to what you're saying is I I kind of looked this over the weekend not not in depth but couldn't come up with some text for the policy either so I think I would agree yeah and I think hidden homicides we're going to keep hearing that term and i think that's something that is not going to go away thank goodness um so i i think it's okay for it not to be in here at this point with the legislation that i think is coming down um the pipeline anyway donna marie i'll just add briefly this is alicia um the there was legislation introduced before the february session and i know when sarah sabri who works at doj was here she shared a little bit about right looked in other states i haven't heard if it's coming back it didn't pass in February. I haven't heard if it's coming back, but I do think it's a safe assumption that that will continue to be a conversation. I just don't know the direct future of that legislation. Okay. Thank you, Alicia. I appreciate that. Is there room to put it under the suicide review board as like, you know, with a focus on suicides that maybe may have been a homicide so i think so i don't disagree my problem with that is that that this is a very niche thing that i think if you're asking boards to now determine whether things are hidden homicides or not i feel like that needs its own specialized group i i don'T like we normally review boards look at like medical data and things like that i i i feel like it's already going to be a heavy lift asking them to weigh into hidden homicides might be an even heavier lift and again open to other people's thoughts i totally get that i just wonder if because this is only a recommendation for consideration for a you know fuller um development of a policy We could just put a little piece in here, like consider, consider where or how hidden homicide, aka, or like, you know, a descriptor of what that is, might also be examined as part of a suicide fatality review. So just like putting the plug in there for them to think about and potentially incorporate, but this isn't their policy. okay i'm all about figuring out hidden homicides just to be clear like i could you know i just i just want to i want the right people doing that too as well and i'm not sure if it's not a different group alicia with all the information that you have from are you able to add some text in there do you feel comfortable that you could write like the boards could provide information useful regards to assessment of him and so on sort of expand on that yeah i would be happy to do that and i think the way andrew is typing in there like this could present an opportunity to yeah i think just something like that yeah yeah because yeah because it might even get yeah okay any objections to this folks brilliant all right let's move on to the next point so all all um I will incorporate this change now, and if there is anything else that folks want to add on that why, just as far as, like, if there's a technical definition I could add, I'm just going to actually write myself a comment to technical definition. So, again, just thinking about our, yes, I can spell, just think about, again to approve a document, that wouldn't be like a substantive change, it would just be like having the technical definition, so I can add that later. Before we move across, and I know some might think this is redundant, but I think a potentially after could helps because these boards could provide kind of just makes the assumption that a regular, as we see it today, suicide fatality review board would have information that would kind of feed into a potential look at hidden homicides i agree i think it's a different one so to me adding the could potentially just gives it a little more like this their focus is not to find these right because it's not about yeah it's really about blame and and stuff like that but and the da's are normally involved and as well as law enforcement so you know and the medical examiner and hopefully the medical examiner is the one that would be identifying that because it's the death investigation piece that identifies whether it's a hidden homicide or not and that's as the law is being written in other states that it really is about the death investigation however we know that MDT teams identify things through fatality reviews things that we wish that they that didn't happen but did happen so there's potential okay great thank you the additional disclaimer helps me thank you yeah all right and then the other two wait sorry they're they're further up okay the other 2 comments I was not able to merge apologies for scrolling so there's the first one so um there was a comment added to um the intervention saying there needs to be a focused study on how many of oregon's suicide are linked to domestic violence we can better determine so we can determine related suicide violence prevention as well as have better or offend homicides um i i noted that this appears to be like a very specific policy request there needs to be a focused study uh also it appears there there happens studies in this area so just want some clarification on what is being asked and why that one i cannot help you with i'm sorry i can't either Thank you, Vanessa. Kathleen? I think we could add, you know, at the end, we have kind of a list of recommendations, like all other. We could add something to the end about the need for further research on the prevalence of hidden homicides in Oregon. But then I think we should add a definition of what we mean by hidden homicide. Actually, you were going to do that on the last blurb, weren't you, Andrew? Yeah, I'll get that and add it. And Alicia might be able to help with that too. you know um i have a little bit written that i can i can email you guys that'd be awesome okay so you're saying kathy maybe move this to the bottom with additional recommendations live yeah i mean i'd like to give um emmy's additions consideration in here and i think that's a good place to put it Like, as far as additional information, like, how would you phrase this? Oh, great. Promote, maybe promote research on the prevalence of hidden homicides in Oregon. that works okay and then i'll send you a little um descriptor of hidden homicides that we could put up above brilliant background yeah let me go find that one there it is okay so then i can then um just take that out okay okay and then the only other one that i had was um this one which was added domestic violence is the lead is the leading cause of mass shootings 60 62 and majority of shooter have ipv perpetrator backgrounds i was unable to find a reference for this i'm hoping that someone has a reference i have some texts that we could swap out here too okay because i found studies i couldn't find that number i could find that that um and i think what i want to be careful in this is that like when this is a public document i want make sure that there's not things that people are going to argue it's say well that's that's factually incorrect um i i was able to find that like in this overview article that 68% of the perpetrators of mass shootings had a history of DV as a perpetrator I was not able to find anything that said that DV is the leading cause I mean because I think that is a very different statement than there's a history so I was hoping that someone knew this Can we rewrite it then just to have the statistics, the statistic versus the statement? Yeah, I think I have a blurb that kind of that does that with the citations. That'd be awesome. OK, then I'll give me the first couple of letters of your email address. Sure. A.W.H.I. and that that way we're keeping you know fidelity as into what the goal was of the comment but we're taking out the um the statement that and just leaving the the facts in there okay so i'm just going to do a comment on we're going to swap text with you see update with citation is that page seven that sounds about right to me um yes okay hopefully this comes through quickly okay here let me back up the share so i can have my email or not just while we're pausing while andrew continues to do his amazing editing work um any from reviewing the document any issues that we need to talk about anything that's come up that's good so this is one of those moments when silence is good came through on my end okay not that i'm helpful at all every time i open that document i cause problems so um let me know let me say so the the first place that um so for defining the term the first place got it that hidden homicide shows up is page eight so i'm inserting that text I'm going to edit it so it fits in the paragraph. All right, so let me show you what I'm doing. I added the technical definition, it doesn't give me screen controls, right here. So we have these boards can potentially provide information useful in regards to the assessment of hidden homicides, then just add it to give them the known connections between deviant suicide risk as well as growing or standing in front of homicides. And that has the specific term. um so i could this is the is the first place that that term shows up but if it seems to make better sense text wise i could just move that entire quote down to the very bottom if people want any thoughts i kind of like it there only because it's a new term for people and if they people don't often scroll to look back and make connections to things um that's my opinion um I was feeling that same way. I'm good with that too. All right, then let me get the second text edited in. So the second one is, okay, so then I'll put a note in the text that we'll just have to integrate the reference into the footnotes, but that's just a formatting issue. It's not an actual thing. All right. Let me go find it. So this is going to go in. There it is. Okay. All right. So let me show you all what I'm doing. There it goes. All right, so this is the original one, which we were discussing as far as the context, just the clarity of the number. So I'm going to remove it. And then this is the new one. And I'm just going to add a note to it. So this is, there's a strong association between DV and mass violence with an estimated 35% of perpetrators of mass shootings in the US having a history of DV. And there's an additional citation for it. Additionally, 59% of mass shooting that occur in the U.S. between 2014 and 2019 involve the death of the proprietor's intimate partner or family member, also has a citation, Geller et al., and has the article. So if this works for folks, I'll accept the edit, and then I'll put a note in here that when the final formatting is done, it just needs to get translated into footnotes, which is just a technical issue. Any thoughts there? Sold. Let me add a comment to it. Done. All right. Let's bring this back from scratch. All right. Let's bring this back from screen share. Anything else that we should talk about as far as the phone report? Those were the only other, the only edits. all right are we ready for a motion to vote on this being our final final report all right i motion that we vote to approve the final report as is with known technical changes that will be implemented after the vote is there a second i can second that any additional discussion all right Tony I'm turning it over to you voting on the motion Dean Seidlinger yes Valerie Colas Yes Donna Marie Drucker Yes Paul Kemp Yes Kathleen Carlson Yes Vanessa Timmons Yes Emmy Ritter Matthew Crabtree Yes Andrew White Yes Andy Leonard Chris Burley James Dixon motion passes sold we're done wow we did it and this is also our last meeting so thank you everybody thank you thank you for your leadership you guys thanks guys thanks everyone stay in touch folks now we've got to promote it So, yes, stay in touch. I think we all have each other's emails and phone numbers or whatever. So stay in touch. And so go off for editing just to get that, you know, footnote and technical change. But other than that, it's ready to go. It's a big deal. It'S a very big deal! Yeah, let us know how we can support it or promote it. Absolutely. Yeah, well, I, you now, I've got plenty of people waiting in the wings that I've been promising a final report. So when Alicia and Tony give us the green light, then we can all start getting it out and talking about it. Thank you. Good work, everyone. Thanks, guys. Good work. Nice work, folks. Have a great rest of your morning on your Monday. Back at work. Yay.