Newsfilter article unlocker

All right. Last one for the day. Good afternoon again. And welcome to the 2026 Jeffries Healthcare Services Conference. With us next for a fireside chat is Aviana Healthcare, largest operator of pediatric home health services and also one of the bigger players in the home nursing space. Joining us this afternoon are Jeff Shainer, the company's CEO, and Matt Buckhalter, the country's CFO. So, guys, thank you so much for doing this. Really appreciate it. Jeff, State of the Union, I mean, crushed a quarter in Q2, so let's start with that. And how are you thinking about the back half of the year? Yeah, thanks, Brian. And by the way, we're going to crush this Tuesday afternoon session here, so we're bringing it home before the day ends. But, no, glad to be here. And like you said, coming off a strong first half ofthe year, definitely strong Q2. You know, not only the core business and how we think about the core growth rates in the businesses, but also, and I know we'll get into kind of our long-term growth algorithm. them we updated and really felt like we were at a place where we saw enough of the OBBA impact to our PDM business, as well as understood kind of how states were thinking about their budgets. Company with, we'll talk about the home health final rule for 25, the 26 proposed rule. And then kind of last but not least, I know we'll talking about California quite a good bit, but really getting the California rate increase effective 1-1-27 was for us kind of the 32nd meaningful Medicaid state rate increase in 32 states. So I take all of that just to say it was a good time to not only update guidance for the rest of the year, but also to really think about the long-term growth algorithm as we go into 27 and beyond. Second half of the years, I know Matt will get into it in a little bit, but continue the same. Continue executing the preferred payer strategy, continue to execute on our state government affairs, be efficient and effective, generate free cash flow, and continue to deleverage is going to be our story for the rest OF the year. Matt, since he called you out, so we got to ask you the next question then. When I think about the decision to raise the LRP this early or mid-year, right, like, you know, what went into that decision to say this is the right time to do this? Yeah, that's a really good question there, Brian. And I think a lot of it really came down to how we felt about the OBBA once that came through. And this time last year when things started hitting, we were cautious. We were just saying, hey, is there going to be friendly fire that happens in this one? Are we going to get clipped by something accidentally that comes through a state? Or is there gonna be pressure in these state, you know, Medicaid budgets and these programs that are put into place? And so even at the beginning of the year, we kind of downplayed what we thought our state rate wins would end up being. We said, hey guys, mid-single digits, historically being on the high single digits to double digit state rate winds. And we thought, hey this is probably going to just, let's just be extra cautious and see how things end up progressing. Through the first half of the years, we had seven state rate ones. We've got a line of sight to a few more here in the back half of this year. We've signed seven additional preferred payers this year, and, you know, we've got some more lined up for H2 as well. And it's really just business as usual. You know, it's the multi-year strategy of our preferred payer model, our government affairs model. There's no difference to it. And we obviously support the idea of eliminating fraud, waste, and abuse. That's going to be great. That's a phenomenal thing. Keep going and get as much as you can because those good providers who buy great clinical outcomes and have good care, they're going to end up winning at the end of the day here we're feeling that and that's that's the reason it gave us confidence to just move our long-range projections up it's what we're experiencing right now it's why we've also been producing the past few years let's stick with it and continue just the business as usual i'm gonna point out home health and hospice you know it's one of our smaller segments and you know its it's about 12 percent of our total total revenue and approaching 300 million dollars in annualized revenue but our home health in hospice matt matt always talks about how proud he is of our team they have been outpacing the market and growth You know, we're in the 15%, 16% organic revenue growth in that business, really driven by double-digit volume, and it's all organic. So the team's done a great job, and we just felt like, as you know, Brian, we've been waiting for stability with CMS related to home health. We thought we saw the final 2025 rule. We wanted to see the proposed rule play through, and I think many people in the home health industry are taking a deep breath of, like, okay, things are going to be okay, and the future's going to get better. So that tied together with just the growth rate that we're experiencing felt like to us the right time to update both PDS and Home Health and Hospice. I'll table that discussion for the next few minutes, but I'll just go back to Matt really quickly. So when I think about the building blocks of the LRP, if you can walk us through, Matt, how you think about that so that when investors kind of like backtest the growth algorithm, we have a better understanding of it. Yeah, so we updated the idea of our PDS segment from 3.3 and a half, 3 to 5 percent to 5 to 6 percent. And obviously, we've been doing that for the past couple of years as well. But we've done a great job of rebalancing where our reimbursement structure is. And California was, you know, I imagine we'll talk about that here in a second. Tank was the 32nd out of 32nd state in the Medicaid side of it that now we can compete. Now we can actually go to work every day. It's never going to be easy. And to say that it's going to easy, it's not. But now we can compete in every market in every state that we provide services in. That was a nice step for us. But going forward, it's not going to be the chunky 20% increase, 30% increase. But it's going to Be a COLA type adjustment. It's going To be 7, 10 states a year that are 4%, 7%, 8%, 10%. And every once in a while, you have one that comes out of left field, like we did with Wisconsin this year, you know, 38% increase that came out of nowhere. You know, those are great. But now we've gotten to a place where we can just compete consistently. So what that's going to equate to is a one and a half, maybe up to two percent kind of rate on the PDS side of it, with the majority of it going to be volume. So it's going be a volume play for it. Demand for services, as Jeff always likes to say, will continue to outweigh the supply of caregivers. But these COLA type adjustment rates will allow us to continue to grow our volume pretty consistently. I would tell you that on the, you know, home health and hospice side as well. just with the you know proposed rule coming out not having parentheses around it for the first time in a while it's very refreshing uh but that five to seven percent taking it to eight to ten percent we'll continue to most likely outperform that but we feel very confident with you know two plus percent of that being rate or one to two percent of being rate and the majority of that continue to be volume and then just med solutions i think we we just felt felt at this point just keep med solutions consistent eight to 10 smallest smallest division we have but but also we've been I'm very pleased with how the modernization efforts played out in 2025 and early 26 in that business. And, really, it's just starting to hit its sweet spot again. I think you'll see us pushing double-digit revenue growth in med solutions sooner versus later. But we just felt like, for now, 8% to 10% made sense in that бизнес. Matt, maybe just to double-click on the COLA comment that you made, right? So, when I think about the last five years, you've had success getting these kind of like one-off adjustments, Although they all compounded and there were 32 of them at the end of the day. Are we now at that moment where it's kind of like the expectation is an equal number of these are going to give you rate increases because now we're the four-year mark of whatever that was from 2022? Is that the right way to think about that? That's the exact way to thinking about it. And think about it just being we're not going to go back to the well every single year and ask for it. You shouldn't, you know, especially after somebody makes a significant investment into you. We go back and we go back with numbers. And the numbers we say is you invested X, we saved you Y, look at the savings that we were able to provide you. And that is really meaningful and impactful that you're not going out with your handout every single time. But it's pretty easy to get there with a 10X savings for every day that you have in the home opposed to being in the hospital. That's significant. And so we'll do that for a year, maybe two. But in that third one, we're coming back saying, hey, guys, it's probably time. It's probably a time for that 6%, 8% so we can kind of keep up with caregiver wages and wage inflation. But previously there wasn't a – the industry wasn't driving this consistently. Now it's us and some of our peers in states as well that are doing this and driving it together so that we don't go through an 8- to 10-year hiatus period where the last four of that you're kind of dying on the vine out there. And as much noise – there's a lot of Medicaid noise. We all know that. It's been going on for almost 18 months. But with as much noise out there, we tell most of our investors, just cut through the noise. Focus on what actual results have been. The best indicator of future results is what's happening right now. And Matt said it well. We're going to end this year somewhere around 9 or 10 state rate increases. That does not include the California 2027. And most of them are 3%, 5%, some 7%. So they're all mostly single-digit. Wisconsin was a pleasant surprise. But that is cutting through the nose, and it's – I'm going to say I don't use the word easier. It's getting more efficient to tell the PDN story, even to state legislatures and governors. They really do understand the idea of the savings. And they also understand nurse wages, that nurse wages need to be competitive in all health care settings, not just hospitals or health systems. So we have found that conversation to be more and more and More efficient over time. And it gets less harder. You're pushing the rock uphill less harder, and it's starting. The momentum of that is starting to roll in our direction. Jeff, is that just validation at this point of the value prop? I think so. I think it's the reality of the MCO leaders got there quicker, as you all expect. They understand the P&L impact of a $5,000 a day patient versus a $500 a day patient. They get it and they want to solve that problem immediately. And our MCO partners, we just, you know, continue to push us for more and more capacity. The state legislatures and governors, they just take more time. They take a year or two. I will go on record, they're a lot faster than the federal government. So I will say you know you what you takes 10 or 20 years to get done the federal government you can get done in a year or two or three at state at the state by state basis so we have found the states you know california was probably the hardest state for us to move they have some big macro problems that they're dealing with but you know 32 for 32 we'd love to see ourself over the next couple of years in about 40 pds states we're in 32 medicaid states today we'd like to fill in about another six to eight states you know and we think more states means more opportunity to continue to you know uh show that value proposition maybe i'll go back to one one word that matt used or phrase we're eight we're now able to compete yeah you and i had this conversation after the california rate was announced what does that exactly mean how does that translate to to your business on a day-to-day basis yeah it's just you know we use whether we use georgia massachusetts it's Oklahoma. There's a bunch of examples of the last three years where the Medicaid rate, where Medicaid was still the payer. So take Georgia, like California, where our PDN services are still paid by the Medicaid system, not through an MCO. And the rate had gotten stale over like a 10-year period. Georgia hadn't done the rate increase in, I think, 11 years. And so it's almost impossible to win at any level. There are no MCO partners in that state because the patient population still with medicaid and you just find yourself being stale you really cannot compete as you as you try to help families in hospitals you're honest with them you're like we probably will not be able to find a nurse if we can it might take us months so no one is winning and that's what we have felt in california over the last four and a half years you know the last rate increase in califonia was 28 july 1st of 2018 almost eight and a halft years ago it worked for about three years and then covet hit and then the californian rate has been stale our business in California has suffered like all PDM businesses for, you know, almost five years. We can see the light at the end of the tunnel now. And we've talked openly about our intent to pass wages through to our current nurses and nurses and caregivers who recently left us over the course of the last year between October and December to kind of get the ramp moving. The very first thing we want to do is to get the fill rate that we currently provide in the state up to a higher percentage we've dropped almost down it's about roughly 50 percent of our hours are actually being staffed that were authorized that's very very low for us so the opportunity to get those nurses that are currently working paid a higher wage even before the rate increase goes into play is our goal and our and our focus for q4 we'll then start applying new wage rates and recruiting and starting in january to really try to pull through new patients because there are a tremendous amount of, unlike Georgia that has one children's hospital in Atlanta, California has almost 10 children's hospitals. So there's a lot of work to be done between us and our peers to pull these patients through. But seven, eight, nine months from now, we will be talking about hundreds of families that have been pulled through the hospital in a great way to the home, new nurses being hired. And we'll be focused on Aviana, but our peers will be doing the same thing, which is really cool. So in a good way, we'll hear a sucking sound in these children's hotels with these kids going home, which is going to be pretty, pretty cool. And then you're going to have families that mom and dad have been filling basically 18, 20 hours a day of around the clock care for these children, having nurses in the home for eight, 10, 12 hours a Day, allowing them to sleep, go to work, get out of the home. So everyone wins when something like California happens and we're excited to be a part of it. That's amazing. Uh, preferred payer agreements. That's obviously been a driver the last few years. Uh. How are we thinking about the remaining a runway for that yeah you used to ask me what inning we're in you're always good about baseball now anyway by the way go braves we're we're high on the braves in the final few weeks of the season here but um you know we think we're kind of mid mid innings you know kind of sixth seventh inning i'll call it um and and we're at a level of maturity at this point so we're no longer we're no longer introducing the preferred payer conversations we're now into like hey we work together in four states and we have payers pulling us across to new states you know hey can you help me in ohio can you helped me in tennessee to other areas which is really a pretty cool part of the mature maturation of this these relationships um we're starting to hit census levels of 40 50 60 percent of the census of a of our partners in certain states you what we started at 10 15 20 percent. We report 37 preferred payers in PDS division. Almost 65 percent of our volumes are now aligned with those preferred payors. That started in the high 20s, low 30s. So we've effectively doubled the opportunity. And we think that runway has years in front of us to move 60s into the 70s and 80s percent.We're also excited about filling in some of those key states we talked about, like Tennessee and Kentucky and Michigan, Ohio. We think that's an important part of our geography that opens up all new opportunities for us with our preferred payers. And then Matt would be at this point, if I didn't talk about value-based for a second, even though it's a small percentage part of your total reimbursement, it's less than 1%, we've been pushing $20 million a year in value- based payments. It's just an important part of the relationship with the payer to validate that we're bending the cost curve. Most of our value-base agreements are tied to the health benefit ratio percentage of our patients. And so if we're being paid a bonus, we're being paid to bonus because we've saved the system money in totality, even with our economic spend. So anyways, I think we've learned a lot over the last four years. We still have a lot of runway left in this and I'm incredibly excited. I'm excited today as I was three and a half years ago when we signed our first agreement. Since you flagged value-based care, just really quickly on that, I mean, why is that not gaining more steam within the payer community? I think we're becoming thoughtful around the idea of value-base care in there and you know data so it's you're the limiter inside them i wouldn't say that i think both sides are being thoughtful in the idea of like what this actually means and what you can actually prove and how you can eigentlich prove those savings themselves and i think we're also educating each other throughout this process so it'S not just one side saying hey here's the data and it's not the other side saying here's what we expect to get paid it's sitting across the table from each other once a quarter and saying all right guys here's where census is sitting what do you guys have what is the fill rate looking like? Here's what our total cost of care is looking like. How can we get this down? By the way, I've got a couple problem patients in here because you're talking about the most expensive and the most expansive patients in America right now. Hey, here are some ones that are really kind of being an issue for us. How do we actually fill those or fix these problems to actually stop this bleed that happens? And I think we're everybody's learning together. And there's been some times in the conversation being like, hey, guys, like, let's dive into this a little bit deeper we're like we're a little bit farther away from that than we think and vice versa on the other side and so I think as we're learning together it'll continue to evolve and to continue to be more and more and it gives us an opportunity to win and for them to win and so when we go back to them and it's been two and a half years or three years with the preferred payer agreement and it was just an enhanced rate that we have the next conversation can always be let's talk about value based care in here and so instead of us saying can we get another $1.50 an hour or $2 an hour Or if we save you more money, can we share in those savings? And that's such an easy conversation to have. And so it always lags two-ish years. Part of that is we want to learn. Part of it is we wanna get better in that process and take those dollars you invested into us and invest them into caregiver wages. By doing so, that's when you see that bend actually start to happen. And that'S when we can go back and have a little bit of a softer ask to start this conversation. Some of our payers we work with, Brian, also are been burned on value based. So, so at the end of the day, we're a small ecosystem in total in dollars and they've been burned down some physician that value based or pharmacy. So you know, we, we find as much as they want, we both want to talk value based at the other day, they've got scar tissue. And, and again, because it's upside only for us, we don't take the downside risk. You know, We're also thoughtful that, that they're not going to put, you know tens and tens of millions of dollars into a single contract. Also the last part of Matt said, And I agree with so much of the reimbursement is eaten up in wage. We generate less than a 30% gross margin in our PDS largest business. There's not a lot of room left there on the reimburseman wage metric. So that's the biggest driver of how we hire. And at the end of the day, I think that's where we start. Every relationship is still around reimbursement and wage. Makes sense. I'll shift gears here a little bit. So capital deployment. I mean, I Think the first time I met you, you were in the home nursing business. way back. Curious, how are you thinking about, you know, with, as you said earlier, the reimbursement outlook is very different today, or it feels different today. Is that changing your mindset in terms of how aggressive you want to get in the home nursing side? Yeah, I think when we met, we were in the 80s, so, you Know, I don't know how old we were, but it was a long time ago, too long ago. Yeah, one, we've been a big proponent of home health for a long time to your point um we were we were big on home health even in the last six years as the rate was declining we do believe that the trough is there we think we've turned the troth um we wish we had acquired more while people where we were still trading down because we see multiples starting to move up um but we're big on Home Health we we we are not a hospice acquirer of size and scale because the multiples in hospice we've said that many many times um we believe in hospICE we believe in the hospice benefit, but we are an aggregator of home health. Our team, Matt talks about it all the time, our home health and hospice team is doing phenomenal, producing mid-double digit growth, great clinical outcomes, great financial outcomes, collecting our cash, all the things you want. So accelerating that growth means a lot to us. We tell people we're in 15 states in home health in hospice, but were really relevant in six of those 15 states. So we are a regional provider of home health and hospice, filling in the southeast and filling in what I'll call mid-America is important to us. And one day, bringing those geographies together. Matt's done an incredible job with our team of cleaning up our balance sheet, getting our balance sheet in great shape. We're producing meaningful cash flow. So we are preparing ourselves for tuck-ins, medium-sized platforms and larger size, home health-driven geriatric care. And I do think after two great years of Thrive Pediatric and then Family First Pediatric, it's the right time for us to generally pivot into the geriatric M&A growth. Yeah, and I just add on top of that, I mean, free cash flow generation has been so great for us. I mean our deleveraging story has been phenomenal over the last three years and being a sub-four times leverage and with the goal of being sub-three times leverage sooner than later, we have a clear line of sight to get there, which is phenomenal but you know 75 million free cash flow generation front half of the year expect pretty similar things in the back half ofthe year you know out there as well so to be pretty consistent um with that at the end of the day but keeping that free cashflow putting that to use growing our business organically but also inorganically while just being conscious of our leverage at any given time and having that ultimate goal to get to sub three sub three times you stole my line because i was going to give you credit for the thank you the deleveraging of the balance sheet um no but maybe just a double click on this so when you think of the opportunity set southeast middle america valuation sensitivity i mean if you can walk me through how you're thinking about the markets yeah and again we're we're open to everything from true tuck-ins one two locations um which we've we've you know actually there's a tremendous amount of activity and incoming sims and, you know, and opportunities. We're also open to platform changing, you know, things that will meaningfully change us from a platform standpoint. You know, we think of post-synergy, right? We think less of what is pre-syndergy multiples. We think of posts-syngergy. We'd like to be in the, I'll call it sub-eight times post-synergy, you know, anywhere between six and eight times post- synergy to us makes a ton of sense. We would buy up to buy the right platform changing. So the right geography, the right asset. I was recently at a panel at the Future Conference and talked about, like, what's the single greatest driver of M&A strategy? It still is just a well-run business. It's not about, you know, how much money they make, what their EBITDA margin. It's just like, do they run a great business? Do they have a great culture? Are they clinically sophisticated? That's really what we're looking for. And it's what you're paying for. You know, no one likes paying, you know, 10 times or 11 times. It's pretty synergy. And then I'm getting a business that was not clinically sound. I mean, you want to buy a great business. So we're really focused on great quality businesses. But we realize the multiples in this business are going up. Again, I focus on hospice. We've seen hospice deals trade in the 12 to 15 times. That's not where we are. We're not a buyer at those places. We don't trade for that, unfortunately, as a company. We appreciate your help in covering us. But we don't train there. So we're very disciplined on making sure that on a post-synergy basis, we end up in that, you know, seven, seven and a half times, and certainly with operational efficiencies get below seven. But we're excited to be in the home health acquisition business, and we think the next, you knows, three to five years, we will acquire a significant amount of home health and hospice. Jeff, one of the successes you've had is maintaining payer mix in that business, which a lot of your previously public peers struggled with. Is that a filter? And how do you strategize around that? I'll tell you, I like companies who don't have what we have. So we like to fix those things once we acquire. So to your point, we're just above 80% episodic. And that's a great mix of both traditional Medicare, but also we have, Matt reminds people, we have 50 preferred payers in that business. And 49 of them are not Medicare, right? So they're Medicare Advantage. So we have a tremendous amount of Medicare Advantage partners. We have found the last three years it is getting, I hate to use the word easy, but it's getting more efficient to negotiate episodic contracts with Medicare Advvantage. They are coming around. Their systems can adjudicate to that. So we stay focused on that, to your point. But I like companies that are in the mid-40s gross margin or have sub-70% episodic because that's what we get to fix. It's what мы get to improve. As you know, we have an incredibly disciplined approach to growth, and that's just one of the two of the levers that we pull. Ultimately, we're trying to drive a great clinical outcome with a great financial outcome. Yeah, I would just say it just works. At the end of the day, the episodic agreements just work. Our caregivers aren't having to run around after four PT visits and saying, like, they really needed 16 over here in a mix of OT and PT that's in there. So you're not chasing authorizations at that point in time. You're getting paid $3,000 for 16 visits over a 60-day period and getting great clinical outcomes. You're preventing hospitalizations. Star ratings are getting up there. So not only do we get a good financial outcome, they get better clinical outcomes, and that's saving them dollars at the end of the day too. So with 50, you know, episodic agreements in place, to Jeff's point, 49 of them, which aren't Medicare, we're doing what's right for our patients. And we go back, we're comfortable if the 80% episodic slipped back to 77, 78, even 76. Anything above 75% is our goal. We don't think we'll see a materially uplift from this 80, 81% we're at today. You know, we could stay in the low 80s, but don't necessarily see that growing to 85 or 90%. I think that's probably a little bit hot. But, yeah, I mean, we see our peers today. We do think other home health predominant companies are also doing what we're doing because we don't think we're alone anymore in this strategy, which we appreciate. Actually, the more people doing it, the easier it gets in this space. But we love the opportunity to fix businesses, both operationally and from a growth standpoint, and have no problem acquiring a business that is materially different than that. Matt, I've gone off script this whole time, so now I need to go back to the script. So one of the questions that we had for you was, as we think about the guidance for the back half of the year, the implied back half-of-the-year guidance, where are the, quote-unquote, conservatism points or assumptions in that guide? Well, thank you for the conservatismo statements out there, Tank. 14 out of 14 quarters in a row of beating and raising guidance, or 14 straight, is pretty something we're proud of. And, you know, it's a significant step up in Q2, but I would tell you the back half of the year is going to look a lot like the front half of the year. We're going to have additional state rate wins. We're gonna have additional preferred pair contracts. We're have great cash collections that's helping to drive, you know, our gross margins and drive our EBITDA percentages. You know, automation is going to continue to play out, you know, in our organization, whether it be on the RCM side or some of our staffing sides to continue to leverage overhead out there. So I think it's just part of the same that you currently are seeing, a well-run organization that's still hungry, that still wants to win, but looks for areas to get better every day. I'll add to that is just putting family first to bed, meaning we're in the meat of the field integration as we speak today, what we call overlap markets. We'd like to put that to bed here in the next 100 days and kind of end the year with the field-facing integration, clinical integration being done. And Matt always reminds me, our AR runs off over the course of the next year. He forgets about that. He just gives it to us. I love forgetting about that, but getting the integration done so we can move on to the, to the next opportunity. I think it's important. All right. Just one last off the script, uh, free cashflow guidance. So 150 million. So there is a little bit of acceleration in the back half implied, not a lot, but just curious how you're thinking about that pretty consistent, you know, from where we are. Our Q1 is a Little bit of our seasonality period, just with, um, and we have to, uh. get some of our authorizations put in bill for denial so it just kind of extends your dso by a little bit in q1 you get a lot of those collections in q2 q3 kind of split that in half and say hey it's going to look consistent a little stronger in q4 just with some 7-1 timing from some states and things that occur but pretty clean that we expected we are doing a phenomenal job through automation in our rcm department we've been able to leverage that significantly all three of our divisions have never had lower dso all three of our divisions have not never had this low reserve rates as well so top to bottom on our cash collections or rcm cycle we're doing a phenomenal job i'll add as you said about conservative i know this if matt tells you 150 million it it's definitely a beat coming to that number so so the conservative nature of the cfo is is is a great thing we've learned to love it but you know as matt said you know for us it's consistency the story. We did try to bleed out as much of the upside in Q2 as we thought was appropriate. So we tried to be more aggressive when we did the guide update, both in revenue and EBITDA. But as you said, we've gotten comfortable with this beat and raise mentality. And I think as you think about Q3 and Q4, it will be similar results. That's awesome. All right. We've got 50 seconds left, Jeff. I know you've got a flight to catch, but any parting words for the audience in terms of what is underappreciated about the Aviana story or things that they need to focus on? I think sitting here last year, I would have been a lot more bullish on, hey, you're missing this, you'RE missing that. I think the investment community has caught up to Aviana. We don't have to tell our story anymore. People are hearing the story, and we still appreciate the opportunity to go out and do this every day. I'd say this. We love what we do. We love caring for people in their home. We love making a difference. We appreciate our peers. We know we can't do this by ourselves. We appreciate Our peers. So, you know, we come to work every day, Matt said it, I agree. We come to work every day hungry. We're never satisfied at Aviana. We're always striving to be better. But we stay disciplined on the five or six things that we think drive our business. And at its forefront, the preferred payer strategy and government affairs strategy has led us over the last four years. It will continue to lead us for the next three to four years, and we think the best days are still in front of Aviana, so we're excited about our future. Awesome. Thank you, guys. Thanks, Brian.